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View Full Version : [From RLF]: ZZPerformance.com


bc3tech
December 18th, 2008, 12:21pm
Please read before considering ZZP for your next purchase

ZZP needs advice... - Saturn ION RedLine Forums (http://www.redlineforums.com/forums/general-discussion/37666-zzp-needs-advice.html)
zzp needs some advice??? don't be such a d-bag next time I need a little customer service Tim. Also I would advise that when you ship somebody's order, include ALL the parts that were listed in the description on your site, and all the parts the customer paid for. and if a customer asks for something that they didn't receive, don't just tell them to use the old stock part they already have. your customer service sucks ass Tim... hows that for advice?

I ordered a header/dp combo from you, and when I didn't get my gaskets that according to the description on your site were to be included, I emailed customer service asking where they were, if they could be shipped to me, or if I could have a refund for the parts I didn't receive so I could purchase them elsewhere. I received a reply from you Tim... one short sweet sentence "use your stock gaskets." you didn't even acknowledge the rest of my question. when I asked again, you basically told me to fuck off in kinder words. why should I use old parts when I just paid good money for new ones? and this was not my first bad experience with ZZP customer service.

since then I have warned everybody to stay away from your products... not b/c there is anything wrong with the products themselves, but because your crappy people to deal with.
I gotta say that I'm a lot like you, no bullshit. I'm also the owner of ZZP and handle problems in a no bullshit way and get just as pissed as you when there is a problem.

In the spirit of not bullshitting, I'm calling you out as a liar. Yeah, that's gunna piss you off but I believe it's true. There is no possible way you bought a $24 gasket, we didn't ship it, kept your money and told you 'too bad'. It didn't happen. If you prove me wrong, I'll do more than eat my words, I'll send you $100 cash just for you being right and me being wrong.

So produce the emails to prove this situation or shut up. Take my $100 or admit you're lying. Now having experience with customers and situations like this I immagine it's going to go in one of these directions.

1. You won't respond, continue to bash and say you deleted the emails. In this case, I can look them up on our end so give me your info.

2. You'll say something to the effect of it being a long time ago and you don't care anymore. (Refusal to accept the $100 will be an admission of you being wrong)

3. The gasket you didn't get was one that was not included in what you purchased and you thought it was. This would probably be the header to head gasket in which case you should be using your stock one and you weren't charged for it. Maybe in your own mind it was a $24 gasket and YOU decided we owed you something.

4. We did do something to help you out and you aren't admitting it.

Now keep in mind what I'm saying you are lying about. It's your quote:
So, 1. you have to have sent ZZP $24 for a gasket as claimed
2. The quote states we told you that we are keeping your money, not shipping you a product you paid for and don't have it.
3. We made NO ATTEMPT to solve the situation.

After I send you the $100, I'll write Tim up and send him home for a day unpaid. Then I will issue you a public apology and admit you were right. If you're lying or wrong, or misrepresenting the situation; I would like a public apology and admission you were and are wrong.
you want the emails you got em buddy:

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you.

-Ben
-----Original Message-----
From: Turbo Tim <tim@zzperformance.com>
To: onshatterdwings@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 4:19 pm
Subject: RE: cracked header


Address:
2575 28th St. SW
Wyoming, MI 49519
Warranty:
That header if sent back would be repaired & sent back within a day or max of 2, free of charge with no hassles.

Turbo Tim
ZZPerformance.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: onshatterdwings@aol.com [mailto:onshatterdwings@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 4:16 PM
To: Turbo Tim
Subject: Re: cracked header

Thats great! but thats not what i asked. I purchased a header that is supposed to come with a new gasket, and i did not get everything i paid for! these short answers are rediculouse, i have never said anything but good things about zzp, but i am starting to get very irritated with this whole situation.

first you only want to give me half my money back on a deffective product, but only if i buy another header at full price, and now your giving me a hard time for asking for somthing i paid for?
and you still didnt answer my other question... IS THAT THE ADDRESS I NEED TO SEND THE SHORTY HEADER BACK TO?

You guys really know how to keep a loyal customer happy...

If my shorty header is "warrantied" as mentioned in a previouse email i would like a full refund, or a replacement, or fixed and sent back. That only seems right considering it i am no longer asking for a discount on another one of your products. right?
-----Original Message-----
From: Turbo Tim <tim@zzperformance.com>
To: onshatterdwings@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:18 pm
Subject: RE: cracked header

The stock gasket is reuseable.

Turbo Tim
ZZPerformance.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: onshatterdwings@aol.com [mailto:onshatterdwings@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 12:24 PM
To: Turbo Tim
Subject: Re: cracked header

sooooo.... its about $25-30 for the gasket from a dealership, can i expect an additional 25-30 back with the refund for my defective shorty header? the discription of the product does say "header and both downpipe gaskets included."
· 14 inch average primary length
· Near equal length primaries
· Available in painted, ceramic coating and stainless
· 3/8 inch flanges prevent warping and leakage
· Header and both downpipe gaskets included
· Smaller primaries for maximum power and torque on 2.2 and 2.4 applications
· Larger 1.75" primaries maximize supercharged setups
· O2 extension included
· Grade 9 downpipe bolts included
and can you please answer my other two questions... is it the same as the stock gasket, and is that the address i need to send the broken header to?

-----Original Message-----
From: Turbo Tim <tim@zzperformance.com>
To: onshatterdwings@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:33 am
Subject: Re: cracked header

Sorry we don’t have a head to header gasket

Turbo Tim
ZZPerformance.com

My mid-length header/dp combo came in today... and i did not recieve a header gasket with it! thats pretty irritating considering my situation. I got both dp gaskets, the o2 extension, and the 2 bolts, but thats it. I need to install this header on saturday, Im sick of driving with a the busted shorty. I would like you to send me a header gasket over-nighted please. Or i will have to buy one from the dealership... is it even the same gasket as the stocker?

and for my refund should i send the broken header to:
ZZPerformance
2575 28th St. SW
Wyoming MI 49519
?

Thanks,
Ben Odoski
407-430-6934
433 Sun Lake Cir #309
Lake Mary, FL 32746


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

To make things clearer, this started with me believing my shorty header was cracked. When I contacted you guys about it, I was told you didn't have any shorty headers in stock. Since I no longer had the stocker, at first we talked and worked out a deal where I was going to order a new mid-length header and when it came in I would swap them and send you guys the broken shorty, at which time you were going to refund me half the original purchase price of the shortly. That's why in that second email I reference my shorty being "warrantied" rather than just getting half my money back. After removing it from the car and inspecting it, only the ceramic coating was cracked, the massive leak was coming from the dp, the flex piece separated under the cuff and still looked fine while installed. That header has since been sold to C-Tech(a member here) who fixed the coating, which is why it was never sent back to you guys, and no further contact was made... there are threads here to verify all of this if you want to take the time to search for them. Or im sure i can find those emails too if you want.

Also, that product description in my second email was copy/paisted directly from your website... it has since been changed and no longer includes the "header and both dp gaskets." If you deny that then you are the liar.

Please do check your company emails and verify these, im no liar.

See those one line replys i was talking about. You owe me 100 dollars and an apology sir.
a printout of the thread is attached.

bc3tech
December 19th, 2008, 9:43am
An archived copy of ZZP's website just came to light where the product in question indeed shows that all gaskets are included in the purchase:

Cobalt ZZ Performance (http://web.archive.org/web/20071116065343/http:/www.zzperformance.com/cobalt_ion/products1.php?id=545&catid=155)

attached is a printout of the above for further archive purposes

MGM1979
December 19th, 2008, 11:28am
wow - nice find...that's pretty damn incriminating.

I'd be curious to see how ZZP would respond to such evidence...I don't care much about my RLF status, perhaps I'll go start some more trouble over there.

I hate to be a PITA for Steve though...

bc3tech
December 19th, 2008, 11:31am
wow - nice find...that's pretty damn incriminating.

I'd be curious to see how ZZP would respond to such evidence...I don't care much about my RLF status, perhaps I'll go start some more trouble over there.

I hate to be a PITA for Steve though...
IMO the only person ppl pointing this stuff out are a PITA to is ZZP themselves, who have now made their own bed and need to sleep in it. Why do the mods feel they need to be involved at all? the only possible answer i see is to kiss admins asses. why shouldn't zzp be ridiculed & publicly humiliated for this? it would be one thing if all that was going on was name-calling, accusations, and defamation; but everything that is being alleged has hard evidence behind it, so there is nothing "illicit" about any of it.
if the answer is "because they pay money for the site" then we've established that apparently paying money to be on the site gives you a free pass to fuck people over w/o taking responsibility.
if the answer is "people should show some respect" i've had a long-standing opinion that respect is a 2-way street, and they clearly haven't held up their end.

edit: wow. i just went poking around some more and notice that ZZP isn't even a supporting vendor of the site! so... how exactly are they allowed to say "hey we need cars to develop products, here's a link to our website" again? last time i've seen people do that they've been banned or reprimanded after maybe 2 posts!
just another example of the double-standards at RLF.

Ahriman is BRUTAL
December 19th, 2008, 11:42am
wow - nice find...that's pretty damn incriminating.

I'd be curious to see how ZZP would respond to such evidence...I don't care much about my RLF status, perhaps I'll go start some more trouble over there.

I hate to be a PITA for Steve though...



I bet zzp's deffence for that product discription is going to be a play on words, and they will say "it means that the header itself is included and both downpipe gaskets, not the header gasket." Why would you list that the header itself is included in that way? Now im making the predictions zoomer. LOL

14 inch average primary length
Near equal length primaries
Available in painted, ceramic coating and stainless
3/8 inch flanges prevent warping and leakage
Header and both downpipe gaskets included<----right here they are just telling you that the header is included with the header right?
Smaller primaries for maximum power and torque on 2.2 and 2.4 applications
Larger 1.75" primaries maximize supercharged setups
O2 extension included
Grade 9 downpipe bolts included

bc3tech
December 19th, 2008, 5:21pm
recently one of our members, MGM1979 (http://www.eatoninside.com/member.php?u=141), dug up the Company's BBB profile as well. Read it here (http://westernmichigan.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=53&bbb=0372&firm=36001559)
BBB Rating

Based on BBB files, this business has a BBB Rating of F.

Reasons for this rating include:
Failure to respond to complaints filed against business.
Number of complaints filed against business that were not resolved.
BBB does not have sufficient background information on this business.

...

Customer Complaint History

When considering complaint information, please take into account the company's size and volume of transactions, and understand that the nature of complaints and a firm's responses to them are often more important than the number of complaints.

BBB processed a total of 5 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 5 complaints closed in 36 months, 4 were closed in the last year.

Sales Practice Issues BBB Definition:

Sales Practice Issues - Claims of alleged sales presentations made in person or by telephone that contain misrepresentations of the product or service, high pressure sales practices, failure to disclose key conditions of the offer, and verbal representations not consistent with written contractual terms or agreements.

No Response BBB Definition:

No Response - The company failed to respond to the complaint.

1 - Company failed to respond to the BBB to resolve or address the complaint issues.

Guarantee or Warranty Issues BBB Definition:

Guarantee or Warranty Issues - Claims alleging failure to honor the terms regarding guarantees or warranties.

Resolved BBB Definition:

Resolved - The company resolved the complaint issues.

1 - Company resolved BBB Definition:

resolved - The company resolved the complaint issues.
the complaint issues. The consumer acknowledged acceptance to the BBB.
Unresolved BBB Definition:

Unresolved - The company failed to resolve the complaint issues.

1 - Company failed to resolve the complaint issues through the BBB voluntary and self-regulatory process.

Product Issues BBB Definition:

Product Issues - Claim alleging a product does not meet the expectations of the complainant, including defective merchandise.

Resolved BBB Definition:

Resolved - The company resolved the complaint issues.

2 - Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to acknowledge acceptance to the BBB.

MGM1979
December 19th, 2008, 7:20pm
are we going to include copies of the SECOND thread in this record?

bc3tech
December 21st, 2008, 4:56pm
are we going to include copies of the SECOND thread in this record?
can do! :) i'll create PDFs tomorrow @ work if i remember

bc3tech
December 22nd, 2008, 9:45am
can do! :) i'll create PDFs tomorrow @ work if i remember
and here they are

MGM1979
December 22nd, 2008, 5:49pm
ah, you're a good man...