DIY M62 rebuilding & reversing nose drive w/ pics

[Bubba Zanetti]

OK, finally I've made some progress: I practicaly finished complete Eaton M62 rebuild for my Honda Civic coupe - both rotors are in place, and with nose drive tightened, they aren't rubbing each other and they aren't hitting the case either - and I am extremely satisfied with smoothness of rotation :bouncy:

To complicate this DIY rebuild even more, as Honda's engines are spinning CCW, during rebuild I also reversed nose drive, so Eaton SC can spin in opposite direction.

All spare parts for rebuild were bought via Ebay, except front rotor oil seals that were immposible to find - so I've bought suitable substitutes from SKF cca one month ago (see details in this thread: http://www.eatoninside.com/showthread.php?t=1788) - new oil seals look like ordinary radial seals, far different then OEM that have very hard, double teflon lips - we'll see how substitutes will hold up.

So I'll put few pics during dismantling and rebuilding:

Complete Ebay rebuild kit:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano001.jpg

Rotors pulled apart - there were obvious signs of worn rotor bearings - gouged front rotor plate:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano004.jpg

Dismantling nose pulley:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano005.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano007.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano017.jpg

Complete nose drive pulled apart:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano009.jpg

Nose drive shaft before cleaning - I polished shaft later on lathe machine, using fine sandpaper:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano011.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano014.jpg

After all parts were pressure washed with industrial cleaning machine:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano024.jpg

I smoothed sharp edges on both rotors with fine grinding stone, and slightly polished surfaces inside case:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano027.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano033.jpg

Front rotor bearings:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano046.jpg

Pressing rear nose drive bearings onto shaft with socket:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano053.jpg

And pressing front nose drive was done with thick steel washer:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano062.jpg

When SC was already dismantled, I decided to do some mild porting - triangular opening was slightly radiused, and SC inlet was open up a little bit, and some rough cast edges were grinded away and smoothed out:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Nesortirano028.jpg

After machining of the 35mm holes for new SKF rotor oil seals (CRW1 35x22x7mm), they were loctited and pressed in rotor bearing plate - after that, both rotor bearings were also loctited and carefully pressed in:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/M62_Rotor_Rebuilding002.jpg

[bc3tech]

wow. very nice work man. Excellent photos.

[Bubba Zanetti]

Second part of rebuild:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/M62_Rotor_Rebuilding007.jpg

After rotor bearings and rotor seals are in place, then both rotors were pressed in - two things are important:

1. you have to decide about rotation direction - for my application my SC needs to rotate CCW, so my nose drive will be swapped 180°,

2. it's important that angle of lobes on rotors are aligned exactly as before with triangular opening on SC case - on both CW & CCW rotating superchargers!.

Rotor timing:

Then, here comes the most important part - timing of the rotors or pressing of the gears.

To keep distance between rotors during pressing gears, I placed few small pieces of thin aluminum from Coca-Cola can - thickness seemed perfect for such job...so first I placed one gear, pressed in, then I carefully aligned second rotor, blocked rotors with aluminum pieces (very tight) and then slowly pressed second gear, watching if aluminum pieces are still in their position.

As distance between front end of the rotor and rotor plate is important, and you can control directly it by how much rotors were pressed in, I've placed thickness gauges during pressing - my distance was around 0.20mm.

Then you have to check if everything is OK with rotor timing - it's hard to check if rotors are hitting each other without placing them inside SC housing, as they need support from rear rotor bearings (small needle bearings).


Adjusting "Rotor-To-Housing" clearance:

First I removed both dowel pins from SC housing, so I could move rotors together with rotor plate in any direction during adjusting.

Then I carefully placed rotor plate with pressed & timed rotors inside housing.

I placed few bolts and tightened them just a little bit and tried to rotate rotors - but without success - rotors were hitting case somewhere.

So, I removed them and searched for high spots inside housing - as clearance is very tight between rotors and housing, I polished all problematic spots inside housing, and just slightly polished outside edge of the rotor lobes with oil stone.

Then I placed rotors inside housing again, tried to rotate - better, but still far from smooth, again pulled them out and polished inside few more times...you really need to be very patient, as tiniest spot inside can almost block your rotors from turning.

I was suspecting that in my case dowels wouldn't fit OK, as my rotor plate was swapped 180° - but I was wrong - they fit perfectly (of course, after I polished every little high spot inside).

Finally rotors were turning smoothly, but only without bolts - when I tightened just 2 bolts , rotors blocked - it seemed that clearance between rotor ends and housing is to small, and when I tightened bolts, rotors were always blocking.

So, I placed thin paper gasket, between rotor plate and housing, tightened the bolts - and voila, rotors were turning smoothly !

Few more pics:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Eaton_M62_rebuild012.jpg

As I swapped nose drive 180°, base of the nose drive didn't align with base of the housing - so I had to fill few spots with epoxy steel putty, to prevent oil leakage:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Eaton_M62_rebuild011.jpg

Then I had to sand sealing surface:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Eaton_M62_rebuild005.jpg

Finished with sanding:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Eaton_M62_rebuild014.jpg

Please note that four bolt holes in the middle of nose drive base need to be slotted (but not to much) so nose drive can be bolted in CCW direction - at least dowel holes are symetrical:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/Eaton_M62_rebuild015.jpg

I also made small video when I was checking for smooth rotation of rotors:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/veliborv/th_Eaton_M62_rebuild031.jpg

[garz]

great Post - thanks

in case its of use to others here - here is some bearing sources and information i found on another forum - i dont think they wil mind me cross posting>

M62 bearing info from automotive forums BBS

danny_d
12-18-2008, 02:36 AM
Hi,

The snout bearings on my 1995 Olds LSS M62 supercharger are whining like crazy. I know about all the kits that are available out there, but I live pretty close to one of the largest bearing warehouses in the country (Jamaica Bearing) and if I only had a little more spec info and or Part numbers I could get the pair of bearings and the seals much faster and cheaper. Just by looking at some of the kits on ebay I can see that the bearings are put out by SKF and the seal by Federal. So come on somebody out there who bought one of the M62/M90 snout kits, maybe you still have the boxes with the numbers? The bearings for the Eaton M90 are the same so anybody who can be of assistance please take the time to post, I'd really appreciate it.

Ebay link 1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories___GM-Buick-Thunderbird-V6-3-8-Supercharger-Repair-Kit-S_W0QQitemZ130265238764QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20Accesso riesQQddiZ2811QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_ Parts_Accessories?hash=item130265238764&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 #ebayphotohosting)

Ebay link 2 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__Eaton-Supercharger-Nose-Coupler-Complete-Rebuild-Kit_W0QQitemZ320325684690QQadiZ2865QQadnZCarQ20Q26 Q20TruckQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItem QQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3 20325684690&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 #ebayphotohosting)

Ebay link 3 (SUPERCHARGER REFRESHER KIT FOR 89'to93' EATON M90 NEW! :eBay Motors (item 370087414064 end time Feb-08-10 12:46:53 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUPERCHARGER-REFRESHER-KIT-FOR-89to93-EATON-M90-NEW_W0QQitemZ370087414064QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors) _Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?_trksid=p4506.m20.l11 16#ebayphotohosting)

By the way, Jamaica bearing is a great resource that you should check out, they have got every bearing conceivable from the tiniest that would fit into a wrist watch to the size of a monster truck tire. They have never failed me, if I was able to provide a number to them or even take caliper to the bearing and provide the physical dimensions they've been able to cross reference to the exact part I needed every time. I have got countless power tools (some very sentimental) still in service to this day thanks to them. And Cheap! you will not find a better price. I'd be willing to bet that these snout bearings would be no more than $6.00 each thru them. If it's ok with the mods I would like to drop this post in a couple of other GM forums to increase my odds a little.

Jamaica Bearing (Jamaica Bearings Company (http://www.jamaicabearings.com/jamaicabearingscompany/index.html))


thanks,

Danny

BNaylor
12-18-2008, 08:57 AM
This is what I have for the Eaton M90 blower snout:


Chicago Rawhide Snout Seal

Part Number 7965 (fair)
Part Number 7966 (ok)
Part Number 7967 (better)
Part Number 7968 (best - high dirt and dust)


Snout Bearings...... Note: MRC owned by SKF

Front Bearing Part Numbers:
* MRC - #203S
* NSK - # NC6203C3X28
* SKF - #6203

Rear Bearing Numbers:
* MRC - #204S
* NSK - NSKNC6204C3X28
* SKF - #6204

danny_d
12-18-2008, 12:56 PM
Hey,

Thanks for the prompt reply. So Chicago rawhide makes 4 different seals for that application? And on the bearings, how did you know all those different #'s, did you get one brand as a set and do a cross reference for the rest? If so which did they actually furnish in the kit?, and can you recommend one or the other out of them like the seals or are they basically the same? In my research I've learned that there are some cheap chinese ones (at least some of the guys on ebay would have us believe) to be aware of and the better ones are C-3 rated. I'll let you guys know how I made out at Jamaica Bearing as far as price and availability.


thanks again,

Danny

BNaylor
12-18-2008, 01:33 PM
You're welcome.

I have over 10 years working on GM L67 engines and Eaton M90 blowers. I've rebuilt a few snouts and main bodies to include rotor seals and bearings. The part numbers are correct based on getting the bearings from a local bearing supplier.

Your other option is to go with reliable and reputable companies like Rolling Performance or ZZPerformance with the snout rebuild kits or parts separately. Just keep in mind the snout bearings have to be pressed out and in, so local automotive machine shop assistance will be required. The best snout seal to use is the Viton type. See links below.

ZZPerformance M62/M90 Parts (ZZ Performance (http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=157&catid=106))

Rolling Performance M62/M90 Parts (Rolling Performance Home (http://www.rollingperformance.com/snoutkits.htm))

danny_d
12-18-2008, 02:12 PM
Oh cool , so you do the same as what I'm trying to do, just curious but only if your comfortable with it of course, would you mind telling me what they go for, was I pretty close in my approximation $6.00? And can you comment on the quality of the bearings from one manufacturer to the other. I've always been kind of partial to Timken. And I'm really lucky you posted, you sound like exactly who I was looking for.

danny_d
12-18-2008, 02:29 PM
One other question, the bearings are the same for M90/M62 right? I'm not 100% on that. I also found a good article on this topic in a search of the part #'s that I haven't seen posted yet.

Thunderbird infoway (http://thunderbirdinfo.blogspot.com/)

This one looks a little better than the other two I found posted here over at sympatico (How to replace an M90 snout coupler without removing the entire blower (http://www3.sympatico.ca/aepa/blowerinstall.html)). and rollingperformance (Eaton snout rebuild (http://www.rollingperformance.com/snoutrebuild.htm)).

BNaylor
12-19-2008, 12:10 PM
To the best of my knowledge as long as the M62 or M90 is a Gen 3 blower yes.

I checked my old invoices and the bearings were the SKF brand. The 6203 was $3.75 and the 6204 was $4.25. C3 rating.

Also, keep in mind other special tools will be needed. Like to remove the SC pulley so a SC pulley puller will be required. I have a Pulley Boys brand.

danny_d
12-19-2008, 05:17 PM
You got a great hookup for those bearings. Jamaica Bearing came in a little higher than I expected. They are looking for $6.80 for the #6203 and $8.10 for the #6204. On the seal the only part he had was by National for $3.60 but its not Viton it made out of Nitrile. He was trying to convince me that it's not available in Viton. The Viton seal was a bit of a challenge to locate. Since Chicage Rawwhide is now SKF the new # is 692294. I ended up hitting the phone book and found another place on Long Island called Youngs Industrial Power Transmission and Bearing Supply Corp. They will have the seal in on tuesday from SKF and it's costing $12.50, pretty steep for a seal. Or I can take the CR #7966 for $6.40. Is the Viton that much better than the Nitrile? What do they use from the factory? I'll probably spend the extra 6 bucks. The bearings they have in stock for $4.00-#6203 and $6.00-#6204 by KYK, a Japanese Co. My experience has been good with the parts from Japan, at least as good as the American in most cases. It's the Chinese stuff that I'd rather stay away from cause they can be inferior. What's your opinion?

thanks again.

[cologne]

Hello,

I’m new to this forum and I am driving astra g 2.2
I’t supercharged with the kit for the cobalt( not the same but nearly). Because in a few time I’ll change new bearing and so on,

Please, sorry for my english

@ Bubba Zanetti

your discribtion with the fotos are verry good. i like them much

you press out the bearings from the rotorshaft (the bigger bearings, not the neadelbearings) and the 2 gears.
How du you press it out?
My fear is: when I take 2 pices of plates under the middle part were the 2 bigger bearings are in and then pressing from the upperside of the shaft ( were the gear is). I think first is the schaft with the rotor comming a little bit out. the gear is also at the same time comming a little bit out, because the gear is also on the same shaft. Then the gear is coming at the seating of the bearing. On your fotos it looks as the top of the
bearingseating is verry smal and with taper. So all the pressure is going from the gear to this little part. Here I see a problem.----may be I haven’t understand it

an other question is, for wath is the spring at the shaft in the snout.

[SoFlSS]

I think its about time I rebuild my M62 on my cobalt. It's seen a lot, maybe too much. I was wondering what you guys think about the ceramic bearings that are available? Is it really worth the money? I doubt I'll be going this route seeing as I have a turbo swap planned, but I do have many friends that ask if the cost can be justified by the gain. Thanks in advance.

P.S. What Honda motor are you strapping that thing to? B-series or K? A local guy has a Jackson kit on a K20. I believe he's running around 10-12psig. Last I heard though it popped the head gasket running a 60-1 EG hatch.

[lloyd]

Hello, does anyone know if the rotor plate bearings held in place after this rebuild. The reason I ask is that the aluminium is formed over the beearings from Eaton. And when they are pressed out the forming is damaged. I am currently rebuilding my M45 and have the same rebuild to do.

Help much appreciated,

Lloyd

[ian2988]

Hi,
New here. I am trying to rebuild M45, as above replacing all bearings and seals, i got a kit from ebay US(i am in UK). I am struggling to get the two drive gears off the rotor shafts, have tried to have the shafts pressed out by engineers, who thought the aluminium housing plate would break before they moved so no joy, have thought of getting a puller...anyone had success in this area??
Lloyd, you raised a good point about the bearings, as i still have the gears in place this was news to me, it is not mentioned in the thread, nor is it mentioned or showed how the gears are removed from the shaft.
Loctite make a special fluid called "bearing retainer" which is made for just such jobs. i will use this if i can get the gears off!!
help is much appreciated

best regards

Ian.

[lloyd]

Well I have rebuilt my blower M45 with bad results. It has seized and damaged the rotor ends and casing. I am in the process of rebuilding it again, this time with more attention paid to the rotor to housing clearance.

Ian, to get the gears off you need to indent the end of the rotor shaft (the the gear puller point can locate) then use a gear puller to take the gears off. It is not an easy job (you may have to hold the puller body in a vice with an assisitant). I managed it ok.

Bearing retainer on the rotor end plate bearings is the only solution, to retain them. This was my concern and I was hoping for an answer of reliability off this thread ??

Lloyd