AutoX: A beginner's guide

[adrenalinerush04rl]

Ok. So as I was sitting around last night I was thinking of something to do with myself. I was thinking about drag racing etc...But one thing came to mind. Auto-x. Now I understand that I could do pretty good with the stock car in STS class or SM or something along those lines.

Basically asking what mods would be good for a beginner to auto-x?

I've got springs already....coppertop_01 lower chassis bar is on the way...

What about sway bars and strut bars and tires and all that stuff?

I know more about drag racing then I do about this so all help is appreciated.


By the way...maybe bc3 could sticky this so people would have a good starting point on what to do??

[bc3tech]

i'd personally recommend getting either a harness or the CG-Lock for your seat belt... in just my crazy-ass daily driving, the CGLock is fucking awesome.

also don't forget you'll be required to wear a helmet. so check the rules & regs for the "league" you join for those deets.

i've attached some forms that my local autoX league uses so ppl can have a general idea of what to expect.

also, here's a link to quickly classify your car for AutoX (http://autocross.mcscc.org/competition/classify.php). if you've modded your car, be sure to look at the points classification schedule, to see how much each mod is "worth" in points which will also give you a corresponding class.
Here's how to do this:
Click the link above, and, for instance, type in "Saturn" for your car's manufacturer. Doing this, you'll find that we're in the 'E' class
Now, look at the points classification schedule, i'll use my car as an example:
I'm not sure what my tires wear ratings are, so i'll skip this one
I went from 16" standard size to 18", so that's 4 points. total: 4
I upgraded my front sway, 1, and added a rear sway, 1. total: 6
i upgraded my springs, 2. total: 8
my air intake is modified thru the procharger via an intercooler, 1. total: 9
i've upgraded my exhaust to 2.5", 1. total: 10
i've added a supercharger, 4. total: 14
i've added an intercooler, 4. total: 18
now look at where that puts you according to the points class at the top, for me this is the Race category, which according to my club, also means a harness is required. i'm also right at the bottom of the race category. So this means stiff competition for me. I may then want to consider removing my rear sway to take away one point and put me at the top end of the modified category and a better position to win.

[Paulumbo]

Ok. So as I was sitting around last night I was thinking of something to do with myself. I was thinking about drag racing etc...But one thing came to mind. Auto-x. Now I understand that I could do pretty good with the stock car in STS class or SM or something along those lines.

Basically asking what mods would be good for a beginner to auto-x?

I've got springs already....coppertop_01 lower chassis bar is on the way...

What about sway bars and strut bars and tires and all that stuff?

I know more about drag racing then I do about this so all help is appreciated.


By the way...maybe bc3 could sticky this so people would have a good starting point on what to do??

Down and dirty.....
Focus on YOURSELF first. All the mods in the world ain't worth a shit unless you can drive it like you stole it.

Get a good helmet.
Get a harness-I'll have to persue on RLF and link to the one sp00ner got and showed how it was installed.
Car mods to START with should include:
The coppertop brace (good investment)
JS strut bar (another good investment)
Rear progress sway bar (sorry BWoody I'm still not sold on your rear bar)
The BWoody sway bar end links
If you can afford it, the subframe connectors from URC.

These mods, allow the current suspension to work to its fullest potential. This will minimize chassis flex and allow the springs, sway bars, and brakes to work as intended and still function well as a DD. You can have all the power in the world, but unless you can use it effectvely it's USELESS!
Get into a local Auto-X and sort yourself out as a driver. Focus on entering and exiting a corner properly-sometimes I've slowed my entry only to have an exit that feels like I'm on a rocket....and my times will pick up .10 or .20 a lap-learn how to drive the car as it is. Once you can hit CONSISTENT-this is KEY-lap times and can hustle the car, then look at spending money on other mods. Essentially if you give yourself too many dials to turn, you can never really pinpoint an "issue" as to why you're slow.

Bonus points to anyone who can tell me why it's important to downshift the car prior to or while entering a corner.

Hint=It's NOT to slow the car, that's why they have brakes.

i'd personally recommend getting either a harness or the CG-Lock for your seat belt... in just my crazy-ass daily driving, the CGLock is fucking awesome.

also don't forget you'll be required to wear a helmet. so check the rules & regs for the "league" you join for those deets.

i've attached some forms that my local autoX league uses so ppl can have a general idea of what to expect.

also, here's a link to quickly classify your car for AutoX (http://autocross.mcscc.org/competition/classify.php). if you've modded your car, be sure to look at the points classification schedule, to see how much each mod is "worth" in points which will also give you a corresponding class.
Outstanding. I usually leave the "paperwork" to the individual as it varies considerably from location to location.

I can not stress enough the importance of focusing on the driver-without the driver, the car goes absolutely nowhere unless it's parked on a hill in neutral and no e-brake set. Driver driver driver. Then the other stuff.

[adrenalinerush04rl]

well just by going from what that points thing is saying I would take it that Im gonna be in modified class...hmmm.

For a helmet....Does it have to be a full face helmet? I know its gonna sound weird but I just bought a dirtbike helmet thats snell and dot approved about a month ago. If thats not something that will work...what kind of helmet should I look for that wont make me poor?

And for the JS strut bar...is that moditfromday1 on this forum(just want to make sure im not getting confused and ask the wrong person for a stb)

[bc3tech]

...Bonus points to anyone who can tell me why it's important to downshift the car prior to or while entering a corner.

Hint=It's NOT to slow the car, that's why they have brakes...so you're in your peak powerband coming out of the turn.

[Paulumbo]

This is why I always recommend keeping your mods to an absolute minimum when you start. Otherwise you start in a modded class, with cars that are fast(er) and you get your ass kicked everytime out and really never stand a chance. I use www.eatonsprings.com in my ride. They'll custom make them for you to your specs or you can consult them. I lowered mine about 5mm but upeed the spring rate a tad to give the car a good feel. I then went a step further and took the factory spring tags off my originals and placed them on the new springs....they look REALLY stock, except the car looks "different" but no one can really quite nail down what IS different-you kinda got to know how to cheat it up a bit too. :thinkerg:

so you're in your peak powerband coming out of the turn.
ABSOLUTELY!

It's also important to heel and toe the shift so as to match engine/trans speeds-otherwise it screws up the balance of the car.

Good job bc

[adrenalinerush04rl]

So what do I do for a helmet. I really cant afford to get a custom set of springs. Im thinking something along the lines of a stb, sway bars and new links, the coppertop_01 chassis bar, maybe sfc's and some good tires(i can put them on the stock wheels...if need be)

Tell me if Im heading in the wrong direction. Like I said...I'd like to know whats been proven etc.

[bc3tech]

So what do I do for a helmet. I really cant afford to get a custom set of springs. Im thinking something along the lines of a stb, sway bars and new links, the coppertop_01 chassis bar, maybe sfc's and some good tires(i can put them on the stock wheels...if need be)

Tell me if Im heading in the wrong direction. Like I said...I'd like to know whats been proven etc.
the more i looked into it the more autoX was a finely-played game. you want to mod your car to the top end of one of the classes basically. then you just practice your driving and win, win, win :D it's like paul already said and others have said as well - autoX is way more on the driver than drag racing is... more like 80/20 driver, vs 80/20 car in drag racing :)

Arai helmets are some of the best, but go for like $400+ :eek:

[mantiskungfu]

Chris,

Let me know if you find a local place, I would join you in takeing a corse or something. Also I know MAtt 3 is very interested in auto Xing....

[adrenalinerush04rl]

The only local place that I know of around here is Lime Rock...

I cant afford a 400 dollar helmet though...which sucks...but in any case...this is still something I'd like to do...and I guess I have all winter to think long and hard about it.

[Paulumbo]

This is where the smart racer shines. Forego the mods, and buy good safety items. You don't have to spend tons of cash on helmets, but get a decent quality-even if it's flat black or white or some other bland color. I mean if you're in an unfrotunate incident and gash your head open and your brains leak out....what are all those mods really worth?

I think I spent about $200 on springs-custom made. Eaton Spring isn't all that expensive. My personal preference is that I HATE progressive rate springs with a passion! They make it WAY difficult to get the car pinned in the corner and "set". Reason being is that the rate increases as the spring compresses-so if the rate gets stiffer as the spring compresses, the feel of the car constantly changes. Hit it with a sledge hammer and you get the same effect.

You're headed in the right direction with your mods. Get the car stiffened up-strut bars, sub frame connectors etc.-this is GOOD.
Learn the ins and outs of your car and yourself as a driver. Adjusting your line, hitting your marks, proper shifting, power application, all these can make or break winning or losing.
Tires....for a newb-I always recommend BFG KDW's or KD's if they're available in your size. They're a bit harder than other tires, however when you look at the fall off AFTER EXCEEDING available adhesion they fall off at a much less rate. What this means is that if you over drive them, you may have 70% of available traction opposed to 20 or 30% like most of the other "sticky" tires like the goodyear F1's-it's much easier to bring the car back. Ignore the myth that you HAVE to spin a car to find it's limits-THIS IS BOGUS information. Finding the limits means, you work up to it slowly. This also allows you, as a driver, to find YOUR limits. When you feel like you can't get anymore out of the car is when you try changing things like corner entry-even by a tire width or less can speed you up or slow you down.

[adrenalinerush04rl]

Yeah...the KDWs are good tires. At least in my experience....I had them on my stang and they were pretty good for the money. I honestly think I can do it. I mean I know what the car can and cant do and at what speeds. But auto-x is at lower speeds. Im not sure yet.

[RL_Clark]

I'm about to get into the Auto-x myself. I can't stress enough the importance of a good helmet. I know they're expensive and whatnot, but you can sometimes find a good deal on Ebay or elsewhere on the internet. After a severe wreck on my four wheeler, in which my helmet was destroyed (not my head), I cannot fathom performing in ANY kind of motorsport without a helmet. As for the mods, I'd definitely wait until you know what the car is capable of now, as well as what you are capable of. Go one weekend and just try it out.
Back to the helmet thing: some sections of the SCCA allow moto-x helmets so long as they're Snell, DOT, etc. I think our chapter allows them. They are just a little bit bulkier, and difficult to drive in the confined space of a car with. Also, check with them; they may have some loaners. Our section has about ten. I think they're changing it to where you have to have an open-face helmet in Auto-x, not sure though. Best of luck to you, and MAKE SURE TO BE SAFE!

[Paulumbo]

I'm about to get into the Auto-x myself. I can't stress enough the importance of a good helmet. I know they're expensive and whatnot, but you can sometimes find a good deal on Ebay or elsewhere on the internet. After a severe wreck on my four wheeler, in which my helmet was destroyed (not my head), I cannot fathom performing in ANY kind of motorsport without a helmet. As for the mods, I'd definitely wait until you know what the car is capable of now, as well as what you are capable of. Go one weekend and just try it out.
Back to the helmet thing: some sections of the SCCA allow moto-x helmets so long as they're Snell, DOT, etc. I think our chapter allows them. They are just a little bit bulkier, and difficult to drive in the confined space of a car with. Also, check with them; they may have some loaners. Our section has about ten. I think they're changing it to where you have to have an open-face helmet in Auto-x, not sure though. Best of luck to you, and MAKE SURE TO BE SAFE!
'nuff said.

[FunkyStickman]

I've autocrossed for a couple of years, mostly in my old SL, but there's still plenty to learn.

You only need a M rated helmet (motorcycle) for autocrossing, but if you step up to any other motorsport, you'll need a real race helmet. Most of the time the autocross guys have loaner helmets. As long as you wash your hair afterwards! ;)

If you're racing in SCCA, then your car stock would run in D-Stock, which pits you against non-Sti WRX's, BMW 330i's, Crossfire's, RX-8's and Neon SRT-4's, among others. Like they say, until you can drive fast with a stock car, extra mods won't help you much, except for tires! Mods will make the car handle more consistently, but to run faster you have to learn proper lines and technique. The biggest advantage you can have in stock classes is racing tires. Mostly, SM and STS classes require harder street tires (hence the name, Street Mod and Street Touring/Street tire) so with a stock car and some sticky tires, you can be competitively fast.

Allowed mods in Stock are cat-back exhaust, air filters, and front swaybar changes. Any kind of tire is allowed, as long as the wheels are stock size. This is the cheapest way to learn to autocross, and the Redline/CobaltSS is a very fast car to begin with.

I can't stress this enough. Don't focus on car mods! Get some good tires and brake pads for the car, and LEARN how to drive faster from riding with and/or watching people. One of the guys I saw was setting FTD's (fast time of the day) with a freaking Toyota pickup truck. The guy who won the last event I went to was driving a BONE STOCK Evo with sticky tires. Keep in mind, he was beating heavily modified turbo Miatas, S2000's, and even another modded Evo 9!

The only bad thing I'll say about it is that most autocross courses are too slow for the Redline. First gear is just too low, and if you don't have stage 2, then 1st redlines around 35MPH and 2nd doesn't start making power until about 45MPH. Sadly, most courses keep the car around this speed, so you will have to learn to either shift VERY smoothly between 1st and 2nd, or just stay in 2nd and keep the hammer down :D

ACU1J4HiVJM

If you watch, this is my very first autox run in the Redline, and it sucked... turn the volume up, and you can hear me bouncing the rev limiter in 1st a couple of times. My next run, I stayed in 2nd. My fastest run was mostly in 2nd, and only downshifted into 1st for the really tight turns. I'm still learning, too! :)

[redlineblueline]

whats this coppertop brace?

[Paulumbo]

Check out the pic. It's the best one I could find before n00bermod deleted the thread.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o169/paulumbo/Subframesupport006.jpg

It helps with flex between the control arms, essentially tying the two sides together. The coppertop brace along with a strut tower brace, pretty much loaks down the font of the car, allowing the springs, sways bar, and struts to do their job without "moving".

[bc3tech]

check out coppertop's cardomain page(s):
http://www.cardomain.com/id/coppertop_01

[adrenalinerush04rl]

Ill have more pics of Jeremy's brace when is comes in. Which will be hopefully next week...(ive never bought something from canada before)

Pics of the bar its self with a detailed/picture included installation how to.

[Paulumbo]

Yes yes please drop in some pics. He's supposed to be making one for me, but I haven't heard from him. I sent him a PM over at RLF and told him to drop us a line over here-this is almost a must have mod imo!

[bc3tech]

Yes yes please drop in some pics. He's supposed to be making one for me, but I haven't heard from him. I sent him a PM over at RLF and told him to drop us a line over here-this is almost a must have mod imo!
he's just started activity over on ionforums.net

[adrenalinerush04rl]

Well I got one of the pre production pieces. I have no idea when hes gonna start making them again.

[RL_Clark]

So, this is my first time to auto-x, yesterday was practice runs and today is the real deal. My best time yesterday was 1:19.xx, so we shall see if I can improve upon that further. It's a pretty nice little red course they have set up. There's one straight where I could almost go to third, but it's got the hard 180 at the end so I think 60 might be fast enough on it. Good luck to anyone else Auto-xing this weekend!

[skoshi130]

How big is the course you are driving?....and good luck and have fun

[RL_Clark]

To be honest, I'm not sure how long the course is. Most of the experienced guys with decent cars are running 1:06.xx An STi ran 1:05 this morning, and my best time today is nearly 7 seconds better than yesterday's. I'm in between runs right now, and hoping for better than 1:12 now.

[bc3tech]

awesome to hear you're into it mang... how you like?

[RL_Clark]

Wow, that was a blast!! I ended up with a personal best today of 1:09.9
I was happy to break the 1:10 mark. My street tires were really starting to cause sliding in the last run. I came home to change to the Nittos, and my street tires were looking pretty rough. I guess I can see now how this is so hard on tires. Someone was telling me that my ass end was probably going to be difficult to control with just sticky tires up front and and streets on the rear, but I didn't see any problems. All in all, I could definitely see myself doing this again. I just might need some spare funds laying around for tires.

[Paulumbo]

Wow, that was a blast!! I ended up with a personal best today of 1:09.9
I was happy to break the 1:10 mark. My street tires were really starting to cause sliding in the last run. I came home to change to the Nittos, and my street tires were looking pretty rough. I guess I can see now how this is so hard on tires. Someone was telling me that my ass end was probably going to be difficult to control with just sticky tires up front and and streets on the rear, but I didn't see any problems. All in all, I could definitely see myself doing this again. I just might need some spare funds laying around for tires.

Good deal! Glad to see you had a solid run!

As for tires, you're asking them to do alot. They need to brake, turn, and accelerate and they only have so much available traction. Sometimes-I know it sounds weird-slowing your entry speed just a tiny bit will allow you to pivot the car in the center a bit better and come off the corner a bit faster and pick up those times. Thr other BIGGEST piece of advice I always give is to be SMOOTH with steering input, brake application, and throttle. I can't stress this enough-if you're smooth, you'll be consistent and that allows you to pick up time. Smooth is the key.

Keep us posted on progress!

[skoshi130]

I do have a question about tires. What would be a good set of track day tires, and what could be used for a set of rims. The first I used my stock tires and rims. I would like to get a set I could use for the track, but could I use any type of rim like some steelies or aluminum equivalent or do I need to come up a little bit in price on the rims? I was even considering dropping down a size to 17" to help even better.

Edit: I had fun doing but just do not want to sacrifice my DD tires any sooner than I have to

[Doc]

I still like the Toyo Proxes RA-1....:D

[bc3tech]

I do have a question about tires. What would be a good set of track day tires, and what could be used for a set of rims. The first I used my stock tires and rims. I would like to get a set I could use for the track, but could I use any type of rim like some steelies or aluminum equivalent or do I need to come up a little bit in price on the rims? I was even considering dropping down a size to 17" to help even better.

Edit: I had fun doing but just do not want to sacrifice my DD tires any sooner than I have to
as far as rims go, no matter what you get you want low-profile tires... otherwise the sidewall will allow too much flex and you'll have sloppy handling. just keep that in mind. something like a 45 or lower is what i'd recommend. also you'll want something wide, to provide more surface area to grip the road. so if you get rims, make sure they're 7" or wider so that you can slap some 225+ tires on them.
I know a lot of delta LSJ's love the goodyear Eagle F1's for AutoX

[Paulumbo]

I do have a question about tires. What would be a good set of track day tires, and what could be used for a set of rims. The first I used my stock tires and rims. I would like to get a set I could use for the track, but could I use any type of rim like some steelies or aluminum equivalent or do I need to come up a little bit in price on the rims? I was even considering dropping down a size to 17" to help even better.

Edit: I had fun doing but just do not want to sacrifice my DD tires any sooner than I have to

I'd go with a 17" wheel-that's what the suspension is designed for. As for tires-ask 10 different people, you'll get 10 different answers. Personally I like the BFG KD or KDW's and here's why:
They have Kevlar inserts in the sidewall-for rigidity which hels the tire to distort less in cornering. They use a silica reinforced tread-it's not "sticky" and it doesn't need to be....to a point. The tread block is stable and there is far less void in the tread (open area-about 18% total iirc). As well when they are pushed beyond the limit, they have more available traction to recover-the fall off is FAR less than anything else on the market.

Going with a "sticky" tire is good, with the exception that when you reach the limit of available traction, they go away.....in a hurry with almost NO warning and cones and dirt are flying.

Do a google search on gyroscopic precession and read this and understand that this phenomena occurs in the automobile wheel/tire assembly as well-it's a big gyroscope-and this is why I always recommend to go with the size the suspension is designed/TUNED for. Any other questions, feel free to PM me as well.

[Doc]

The guys who race the cobalts use a 17x8 rim. They also run Hoosier R6's, not sure if they are 225/40-17's.

[skoshi130]

.
I know a lot of delta LSJ's love the goodyear Eagle F1's for AutoX

I am running the Eagle F-1's now for daily, but I guess another set for the track will not hurt. Thankfs fro the info, I just would like to get more involved AutoX the car I loved it the first time I did it

[bc3tech]

I'd go with a 17" wheel-that's what the suspension is designed for. As for tires-ask 10 different people, you'll get 10 different answers. Personally I like the BFG KD or KDW's...
KDW's are a mean lookin tire too... fuckin agressive as hell. they look like they're gonna beat you up and take your lunch money, then rape your little sister on their way thru the lunch line.

[Paulumbo]

KDW's are a mean lookin tire too... fuckin agressive as hell. they look like they're gonna beat you up and take your lunch money, then rape your little sister on their way thru the lunch line.

In the right hands, they will.

[RL_Clark]

Hmm....maybe I need to look into a set of those if I end up staying involved in AutoX.
Roughly how many races do you think a set of tires is good for?

[Paulumbo]

Depends how hard you flog them and what surface you're on. Concrrete and rough asphalt will chew 'em up quicker.

[RL_Clark]

Depends how hard you flog them and what surface you're on. Concrrete and rough asphalt will chew 'em up quicker.

:rollinglaugh: The last one is rather difficult to avoid down here. The streets here are like driving through some kind of offroad rally course.

[Paulumbo]

:rollinglaugh: The last one is rather difficult to avoid down here. The streets here are like driving through some kind of offroad rally course.

lol-yes rough surfaces will eat 'em which leads to buying sticky tires frequently. I'd give serious consideration to the BFG's.