vrrrooom gghhhhaaaaaaaa pfbtttt

[Area47]

artificial rev limit at 7k. rev limiter set at 7400.

looking at the logs, at 6800 it starts to knock. 7k it hits a wall. spark blow out? i have tried dropping the timing down, no change in what it does. it didn't start doing it till i put the 2.7 on the car. the 2.8 would run till 7400 all day long.

im lost

[Paulumbo]

What plugs do you have and what are they gapped at?

[bc3tech]

What plugs do you have and what are they gapped at?
+1 - gapping could be the issue.

[Area47]

bkr7e. stk number 6097. turbo honda plug.

gapped at .35.

im thinking it is blow out. i come from the school of larger the gap, the more power can be made, which is technically true. in this case it's not making power. it's blowin the fuck out of the spark. i guess.

[Paulumbo]

I would think that if it's blowing spark, it would set a misfire code. Doc?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Doc]

Not necessarily....it could be a fueling issue, the 60's are tricky to get right.

[TheWastedYears]

What does your WO2 tell you? I'm guessing you don't have an EGT?

[Area47]

egt is fine. wb is 12.2.

[TheWastedYears]

I would think that if you're seeing spark blowout, then your EGT shouldn't be fine. It should be high.

[Area47]

it doesn't spike. soon as it hits, i jump out of the throttle

[TheWastedYears]

So what is your EGT at when it happens?

[Doc]

$10 says it's a fuel issue.

[bc3tech]

$5 says i hate you guys for having tuning.

i win! :D

[Doc]

:lol: you have tuning, you just don't know it ;)

[bc3tech]

:lol: you have tuning, you just don't know it ;)
psshhh please.

[Area47]

how would it be a fuel issue? care to elaborate?

egt is at 1375

[Paulumbo]

psshhh please.

Swap in an LSJ and you have tuning.....DUH!

[bc3tech]

Swap in an LSJ and you have tuning.....DUH!
:no:
/threadjack.

[Area47]

ok, so doc is mia on the subject now.

got new plugs, putting them in tonight. upped the spark dwell while i was eating a chicken sammich on lunch so we shall see

[Doc]

I'm back now....had a dinner with some friends to wish me off.
I'm not certain about where it is, I just have a hunch it has to do with fuel.

[bc3tech]

I'm back now....had a dinner with some friends to wish me off.
I'm not certain about where it is, I just have a hunch it has to do with fuel.
wish you off? headin' back to the east coast finally?

[Area47]

doc. you can paypal me the 10 bucks now. it wasn't fuel.

[Paulumbo]

Spark blowout? New plugs gapped about .030-.025

[Doc]

doc. you can paypal me the 10 bucks now. it wasn't fuel.

ok, what was it..?

whats the paypal address..? Imnotatooner@eatme.com :lol:

[Area47]

lol
spark blow out. upped the dwell timing above 5k a bit. it's still trying to do it, so i may play around with plug gap tomorrow

[Paulumbo]

ok, what was it..?

whats the paypal address..? Imnotatooner@eatme.com :lol:

nice........Go dig up more porn

[Doc]

Pr0n :lol:
spark dwell....shit. It was either fuel or spark and I picked fuel :lol:

[Paulumbo]

I'd just be happy if I had HPT so I could really turn the knobs on my shizzle
I'm sure there's gotta be more powa in stage II

[Area47]

I'd just be happy if I had HPT so I could really turn the knobs on my shizzle
I'm sure there's gotta be more powa in stage II

i pulled 262 on a stage 2 pulley with intake and full exhaust

{race gas}

doc. no issues with fuel. im just going to drop the gap .003 and see what happens with it, but it now pulls all the way to 7400.
wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


im not a tuner, im just an educated guesser

[Paulumbo]

intake???
What race gasola were you using?

[bc3tech]

I'd just be happy if I had HPT so I could really turn the knobs on my shizzle
I'm sure there's gotta be more powa in stage II
i'd be happy w/ a monkey that was under my hood that i could train to do what i wanted for fuel & spark at this point :cursin:

[Paulumbo]

i'd be happy w/ a monkey that was under my hood that i could train to do what i wanted for fuel & spark at this point :cursin:

Talk to NR-I think he qualifies

[bc3tech]

Talk to NR-I think he qualifies
:flamed:

[Area47]

intake???
What race gasola were you using?

k&n intake
pacesetter header
3 inch dp
3 inch cat back
112 octane fuel
stage 2 pulley
42lb injectors.

262/228

:D

i can do better than that now. i could possibly squeeze 265/240 out of it with water injection and race gas, but one false move, and it's gone

[Paulumbo]

nice-I gotta find some place around me that sells 100+ unleaded. I'm prolly gonna go with an SMS header/downpipe in the future or have one custom made-I need to get the numbers on the SMS header and look at how that compares to all the math that goes into header selection and see how they compare.

Yeah....I know I'm a geek like dat.:werd:

[bc3tech]

SMS header/dp? dude you like wasting money or what?

[Paulumbo]

SMS header/dp? dude you like wasting money or what?

Did you miss the part where I wanted to sit down and crunch the numbers to see how close the SMS came to "ideal"? My other option is to have someone like burnsstainless make one for me-expesnive, but their shit is spot on and it looks good too.

[Doc]

I haven't seen the SMS. I have seen the one EDUBs has and that setup is beautiful. I just got a mid-length from Reign and so far its good. I have to do some serious tuning when I get back home.

[Paulumbo]

I haven't seen the SMS. I have seen the one EDUBs has and that setup is beautiful. I just got a mid-length from Reign and so far its good. I have to do some serious tuning when I get back home.

Yeah I looked at Edubs-it's nice! I've had the guys over at burns build me some headers before-they wannaknow everything the engine has going on and in what powerband you're in the most-the have nothing "on the shelf" it's all one off stuff.

[Doc]

k&n intake
pacesetter header
3 inch dp
3 inch cat back
112 octane fuel
stage 2 pulley
42lb injectors.

262/228

:D

i can do better than that now. i could possibly squeeze 265/240 out of it with water injection and race gas, but one false move, and it's gone

I got 262/261
ZZP shorty
ZZP 3" downpipe (sans cat)
GMPP cat-back
60#'s
2.5" pulley
Injen CAI
Second H/E
93 octane

I only got 16.5 psi too, I didn't have a bigger tensioner pulley on there (I got 20.9 with one later). So, with all excuses aside, I was happy with the results.

[Paulumbo]

I got 262/261
ZZP shorty
ZZP 3" downpipe (sans cat)
GMPP cat-back
60#'s
2.5" pulley
Injen CAI
Second H/E
93 octane

I only got 16.5 psi too, I didn't have a bigger tensioner pulley on there (I got 20.9 with one later). So, with all excuses aside, I was happy with the results.

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN Gina!?!?!?!?!

[bc3tech]

what's sapping up all the tq (on area's)? and doc, 262/261 is damn good for an s/c'd car!

[Doc]

I'm gonna see if I can try getting similar numbers using a 2.7" pulley. I have a month to work on it. ;)

[bc3tech]

you did a 2nd gear dyno din't you. :p

[Doc]

I think it was a 3rd gear pull ;)

[Doc]

I have a smaller pulley than Area....the cat-back was smaller too, that helps with the torque but hurts the flow...odd but it worked. I have a Corsa 2.5" now so I think the torque will be a little less.

[Paulumbo]

I have a smaller pulley than Area....the cat-back was smaller too, that helps with the torque but hurts the flow...odd but it worked. I have a Corsa 2.5" now so I think the torque will be a little less.

Ah yes and someone saw real world improvements.....bigger is not always better. Try a pull with a header that has 1 5/8 primaries.....you'll see mid range pick up as well.

[Area47]

new numbers with some more work.


280/265

spark blow out hit again, dropped the gap down. all is good again.
:)

[Paulumbo]

new numbers with some more work.


280/265

spark blow out hit again, dropped the gap down. all is good again.
:)

1 question-what is the ambient air temp when the blow out is occuring?

[Area47]

1 question-what is the ambient air temp when the blow out is occuring?

below 62 degree's? it was 61 on the dyno itself. it didn't make itself apparent till i started to lean it out.

[Doc]

new numbers with some more work.


280/265

spark blow out hit again, dropped the gap down. all is good again.
:)

which pulley are you using with the 60's..?

[Area47]

which pulley are you using with the 60's..?

2.7

i also learned that afr on the dyno will drastically change when you go play on the street.

doh!

i hit my goal in terms of power to the tire. time to drop it down:cowsmile:

[bc3tech]

2.7

i also learned that afr on the dyno will drastically change when you go play on the street.

doh!

i hit my goal in terms of power to the tire. time to drop it down:cowsmile:
depends on the dyno you use... mustang dyno, not so much, dynojet / dynapack / diablo, yup.
diff between load-bearing and non-load-bearing.
not sure how much i agree w/ the "drastically" part of that either....

[Paulumbo]

2.7

i also learned that afr on the dyno will drastically change when you go play on the street.

doh!

i hit my goal in terms of power to the tire. time to drop it down:cowsmile:

Use your butt meter as the final judge-when was the last time you raced dyno slips? I usually tune and mod for torque and let HP fall where it may.

[Area47]

depends on the dyno you use... mustang dyno, not so much, dynojet / dynapack / diablo, yup.
diff between load-bearing and non-load-bearing.
not sure how much i agree w/ the "drastically" part of that either....

air flow and temperature. temperature drops. the car runs leaner. more air flow. the car runs leaner. lsj is a weird creature.

i went on the dyno with an afr street tuned to 12.2
hit the dyno. 11.5

hmmmmmmm
leaned it out. got it back to 12.2-12.3. go out later that night and play around. 12.9-13.0

ohhhhhhhhhhh hell no.

[Paulumbo]

air flow and temperature. temperature drops. the car runs leaner. more air flow. the car runs leaner. lsj is a weird creature.

i went on the dyno with an afr street tuned to 12.2
hit the dyno. 11.5

hmmmmmmm
leaned it out. got it back to 12.2-12.3. go out later that night and play around. 12.9-13.0

ohhhhhhhhhhh hell no.

When the temp drops, it should run richer-air is more dense so it should require more fuel. Sounds to me like you need to richen it a tad. I wish MSD made some high output coils for our cars :hungry:

[bc3tech]

i was talking to a Napa worker the other day, young dude big into mustangs, he said MSD just came out w/ some G-something that will replace the coil-on-plug setup we've got... :shrug: haven't looked into it.

[Paulumbo]

I've used MSD stuff for years.....it can make a huge difference! Can't wait.

[Area47]

When the temp drops, it should run richer-air is more dense so it should require more fuel. Sounds to me like you need to richen it a tad. I wish MSD made some high output coils for our cars :hungry:

not the case with lsj's. it leans out. what people are used to is the computer comensating for this and dumping more fuel in. this wonderful creation doesn't do that.

msd makes a distributor for the 2.2 cars to replace the coil on plug thing, or whatever it may have. nothing for the lsj. i don't see why they would either really.

[bc3tech]

...msd makes a distributor for the 2.2 cars to replace the coil on plug thing, or whatever it may have. nothing for the lsj. i don't see why they would either really.
they do? link?

here's what i found today:
http://www.msdignition.com/new_products/blasterefi.html
http://www.msdfuelinjection.com/configure-gm-4cyl.html

[Area47]

when i get back from lunch. i'll get you msd part number for it.

[M-Dub]

HE also failed to mention my cars number that he has been working on for ever now too!

My mods:
2.85" pulley
42.5's
K&N Intake
GMPP Custom Ported Manifold
ZZP 3"-2.5" Catted Downpipe
2.5" Magnaflow Exhaust
Area47's tune!

I put down 262/ 237 same day as his 280/262 run!

I will have a cobra front mount and methanol injection done sometime here in the future!

[bc3tech]

when i get back from lunch. i'll get you msd part number for it.
waiting ;)

[Doc]

:lol: I'd like a copy of the tune ;)

[Area47]

:lol: I'd like a copy of the tune ;)

no ya don't
:)

i have changed files since then. made the car a lot more safe. i can send you the old file if you want. it's a very sketchy map in terms of what it does. or what it wants to do when it wants too regardless of what you told it to do.

dizzy number - 8498

it's for the 2.2 liter.

[Doc]

:lol: I don't mind blowing my car, I can convince the wife to spend money now. I checked out another 07 tune and I couldn't get the afr above 11 to save my life. Everytime I tried it'd dump more fuel....the IDC was over 80% so I stopped playing and reflashed it.

[RL_Clark]

...I can't wait to get a tune. It needs it like there's no freaking tomorrow. If only I just had the time/money and a little bit more know-how to just do it myself. By the way, this thread seems very helpful so far in aiding towards my understanding of tuning. Thanks for such info guys.
Speaking of headers and downpipes, etc. Does anyone in here run the GMPP Extrude Honed Mani? I was considering that along with the GMPP Performance Exhaust, I just don't know if there's a better combination compared with value out there. I really don't want anything extremely noisy, as I'm done with the loud exhaust phase of my life.

[Doc]

I ran the GMPP parts and I loved them.

[M-Dub]

I am running an even more ported version of the GMPP manifold!

[Area47]

:lol: I don't mind blowing my car, I can convince the wife to spend money now. I checked out another 07 tune and I couldn't get the afr above 11 to save my life. Everytime I tried it'd dump more fuel....the IDC was over 80% so I stopped playing and reflashed it.

i can send you the one i did the 280 on. my current tune is still under lock and key for right now.
:D

[Doc]

awesome.... heiny00z24@yahoo.com

[Area47]

i'll fire the map off to ya tonight when i get a chance


i need to figure out why im throwin 171/172/300 codes now at random. only at idle. im thinking i need to increase my min pw to get rid of the 300. this may also cure the other two as well.

[Doc]

That still has me on a few tunes....I have a tune from shafer but it doesn't work for the 05-06's....I can shoot that to you in return.

[bc3tech]

ya both need to stop bein' cocks and upload 'em to the downloads area. :p

[Doc]

:lol: I put 5 in there...

[Area47]

That still has me on a few tunes....I have a tune from shafer but it doesn't work for the 05-06's....I can shoot that to you in return.

the one i did 280 on was his fuel side with my timing and afr work. it was just way to picky and would randomly change. the one im on now, lets just say it might just put down more

:facelick:

i may just upload the maps here later, i have a shit ton of maps floating around anyways. dunno. depends on how bored it get.


as far as the codes go, i know how to fix them.im just lazy and don't feel like doing it.

[Area47]

i loaded the files last night. if someone blows there shit up. it's their fault. i warned them.

[Doc]

they'll show up when bc gets off his ass and approves them :lol:

[bc3tech]

they'll show up when bc gets off his ass and approves them :lol:
:nofu: you should talk

[Area47]

you should tell me who downloads the 273 and the 280 maps. id like to keep tabs on them because i put a shit ton of work into them. hell lock them till i can approve the user
:D

[bc3tech]

you should tell me who downloads the 273 and the 280 maps. id like to keep tabs on them because i put a shit ton of work into them. hell lock them till i can approve the user
:D
:no: and then you woke up.

[Area47]

:no: and then you woke up.

i know you can track it!

[bc3tech]

i know you can track it!
actually i doubt i can.

[Area47]

actually i doubt i can.

oh yes ya can. you can see who has looked at it and downloaded it. i know you have this ability. i know i did as admin on a couple sites. rather interesting stuff

[bc3tech]

oh yes ya can. you can see who has looked at it and downloaded it. i know you have this ability. i know i did as admin on a couple sites. rather interesting stuff
w/ the mod that we're using for the file downloading? w/ attachments, maybe, but i dunno 'bout w/ the downloads mod.

[Area47]

find out man!

[04Redline]

If it helps any i downloaded it, to compare it to my current file. I didnt think i was running more timing than you, *shrugs*

[Doc]

I have them all...;)

[Area47]

If it helps any i downloaded it, to compare it to my current file. I didnt think i was running more timing than you, *shrugs*

depends on how you look at it. there is a lot of hidden timing tables in there i didn't zero out, till my current map. so it may appear that im not running much timing when in fact there is another 5 degree's ontop of whats in there on the high octane map.

[RL_Clark]

So, with HPT, can you run a something like a dual octane fuel map? Similar to GMPP Stage III setup, where it automatically adjusts for the high octane (108 with GMPP I believe)?
I'm in the process of learning alot about fuel/timing/afr maps before I get anywhere near tuning on my own.

[Doc]

It has high and low octane maps but I'm not sure if they work like that exactly. I believe the lower map kicks in if it encounters something not quite right. I wish anyone could read the stage III GM pcm....it'd make things a lot simpler.
As far as timing goes, I believe our ceiling is 24* might be 27*.

[bc3tech]

So, with HPT, can you run a something like a dual octane fuel map? Similar to GMPP Stage III setup, where it automatically adjusts for the high octane (108 with GMPP I believe)?
I'm in the process of learning alot about fuel/timing/afr maps before I get anywhere near tuning on my own.
stg3 doesn't automatically adjust for HOM... you have to turn it on when u start the car. it will, however, shut itself OFF automatically after sensing too much knock.

[RL_Clark]

Oh, I see said the really blind man.

[Area47]

i have never pushed my car past 27 degree's. why? because above 25 degree's that 2 hp is pointless in terms of beating the fuck out of the rod bearings over it. im sitting at 23 degree's right now. the car is happy. im happy. especially with the afr im running. i don't feel the need to crank it on race gas, or run anything other than 91 octane {which all of my runs but one were done on} the abuse and possible annilation i tend to shy away from.

sure i could run 13.0 afr and 30 degree's of timing on c16. thats the easy part, but at what expense will it cost me? most likely a barfed ring land. ala camron style.

does you way of tuning play heavily on how much power you can get? it shouldn't. power is easy. drivability day to day regardless of temps is hard. to get the same power weather hot or cold is even harder. lets face it. we are all still learning.

[04Redline]

Well said!

[RL_Clark]

So, just out of curiosity (hopefully it won't kill this cat), does anybody know what gap should be run on a stage 2 RL?? Would it be bettre to gap it a little bit more than the stock gap? Oh, I don't even know the stock gap yet :) I'm retarded sometimes.

[bc3tech]

So, just out of curiosity (hopefully it won't kill this cat), does anybody know what gap should be run on a stage 2 RL?? Would it be bettre to gap it a little bit more than the stock gap? Oh, I don't even know the stock gap yet :) I'm retarded sometimes.
i'd think less gap, if any change... increasing gap w/ more boost risks spark blowout.

[RL_Clark]

True. I'm just not sure how conservatively gapped it is from the factory, but we shall see. Maybe .033 or .035?? Anyone? Or is it down around .028?

[bc3tech]

True. I'm just not sure how conservatively gapped it is from the factory, but we shall see. Maybe .033 or .035?? Anyone? Or is it down around .028?
if you get a gapper can't you tell from where it sits on there what it's gapped at currently? :shrug: never used one :D

[Area47]

this may sound like a wierd answer, but run the biggest gap you can without getting spark blow out.

me personally, i dropped to .035 gap on some 7e plugs. i never got blow out till i went to a 2.7, and it happened at 6800 like freaking clock work. i dropped the gap to .030 and upped the dwell time above 4500. pulls through to 7400 with no problems.

[RL_Clark]

if you get a gapper can't you tell from where it sits on there what it's gapped at currently? :shrug: never used one :D

Well, I guess I COULD do that, but I was looking forward to being extremely lazy.

Area47: I don't have tuning abilities...yet. So, I can't really adjust the dwell time.

On a side note, the plugs I bought are the E3 plugs. I've heard some good things about them. I guess I'm soon to find out how good they really are.

To avoid a double post: According to a thread I found on RLF, the stock gap is .045" which seems rather highly gapped. I think I'm going to test out a .038" gap. I shouldn't have spark blowout with a GMPP Stage II pulley on that gap. However, this may explain my hardcore bogging on top.

[Area47]

change the plugs to a bkr7e. gap them at .035. you may lose maybe 1-2 mpg, but you won't have blow out issues.

[RL_Clark]

Well, I am just now looking at my E3's, and it doesn't look like I will be doing any gap changes. I guess the way the electrode is designed, maybe I won't have any blowout issues. It looks like a pretty hardcore design. If I ever increase boost, I suppose I'll go to an NGK, and play around with some gap. Hopefully I will have tuning capabilities by that point.