Dual Pass setup [Archive]

MGM1979

July 16th, 2008, 3:40pm

Tennpenn83

July 16th, 2008, 6:39pm

Alright, I COMPLETELY forgot about the dual pass install that needs to be done, so I'm gonna have to redirect some fundage to get it out of the way. That said, I know I gotta go with the resevoir tank option - but I've got a BWoody Supercooler in the way that I don't want to get rid of.

What are my options as far as alternative placements for the resevoir? It HAS to be mounted above the filler neck, correct? Maybe I'll take some pics of my engine bay to get a visual going to help spark some ideas/solutions. If I have to, I'll have a custom tank made to fit where needed - if it's all I can do to hang onto the SuperCooler.

first off, we need pics of your engine bay to see your supercooler.

the option b kit removes the stock filler neck. in fact, it will probably be well worth your while to just remove all the hoses and plumbing from the stock h/e, intake manifold and pump. just buy at least 6 ft of all new 3/4" heater hose (and a shitload of 90 degree elbows and screw clamps. you can re-use some of the stock hoses if you don't have to cut them to get them off.)

as far as placement, it would be best to put it as the high point of the system... above everything else related in any way to the cooling system. mine is by my strut tower, but the redlines typically have just a bit more room then the `balts. and don't forget about the air bleed hose that needs to go to the top of the heat exchanger (as it is not in the directions anywhere)

if you haven't already, buy the option B kit from crate engine depot. for about $100, it makes it 100x easier than trying to piece it together yourself.

here's the link for the option b kit :

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/Option-B-Kit-OPTB-P1838C0.aspx

and here's a pic of it installed in my ride :

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b224/azn_ladie82/DSC02579.jpg

MGM1979

July 16th, 2008, 8:17pm

Yeah, I know about the kit - and if it wasn't for the supercooler, I'd hook it up...there's just no room for that tank (I don't think)...

Pics to follow shortly....

MGM1979

July 16th, 2008, 8:57pm

146

147

148

See what I'm talkin' about - it may as well be a cobalt engine bay now...any ideas?

Cat Ion

July 17th, 2008, 4:24am

WTF!!! That car looks like ass! Time for a bath, you think? I got an idea though. Give me the supercooler and you have room for the option B!!!

Tennpenn83

July 17th, 2008, 6:06am

i agree, time to wash the bitch

would that tank for the supercooler fit inside the fenderwell? take out your passenger side headlight and look into the hole, you'd be surprised how much room there is down there. prob have to take your bumper off to do it though

MGM1979

July 17th, 2008, 10:15am

clean engine's do NOTHING for speed...

I like the idea about moving the supercooler in the fenderwell...I'll have to look into that. It's a heavy bitch, so I'd have to have a strong mounting point.

Cat Ion

July 17th, 2008, 4:38pm

True, but my car runs smoother when clean. She just likes the feel of no grime on her. She thanks me by running better......

Tennpenn83

July 18th, 2008, 9:03am

lol, and more aerodynamic by being smoother and free of dirt...

MGM1979

July 18th, 2008, 10:38am

no no no - the dirtier the engine bay the harded I've "played"...just like little league - don't wanna be the only one coming up without dirt/grass stains on my pants...even if I rode the bench all day. :orangehat:

So, I was thinking (uh oh)...I can't put the supercooler in the wheel well, b/c then how I would I load it with ice??? So, I'm gonna look at things a little this weekend...I might just be SOL and have to ditch it - which means a BWoody supercooler will be hitting the market here shortly. It will throw my plans out of whack some though, so I dunno.

bc3tech

July 18th, 2008, 10:43am

...
So, I was thinking (uh oh)...I can't put the supercooler in the wheel well, b/c then how I would I load it with ice??? So, I'm gonna look at things a little this weekend...I might just be SOL and have to ditch it - which means a BWoody supercooler will be hitting the market here shortly. It will throw my plans out of whack some though, so I dunno.
have a tube come up that has a cap on it that goes down to the supercooler :)

BlackChrome

July 18th, 2008, 10:52am

I'm guessing that the supercooler just has a tube snaking around inside the tank, and you fill it with ice? So it doesn't really increase the amount of coolant much?

MGM1979

July 18th, 2008, 11:10am

I'm guessing that the supercooler just has a tube snaking around inside the tank, and you fill it with ice? So it doesn't really increase the amount of coolant much?

yeah, no - coolant capacity increased by maybe a couple cups. It's basically a mini H/E laying on its side and enclosed by the box that houses the ice or whatever I'm using to supercool the fluid with.

It was damn effective in the heat/humidity of FL, which is why I'm not so quick to ditch it...

I mean, if I DON'T go with option B (resevoir), then what kind of BS am I looking at with the dual pass?

Doc

July 18th, 2008, 9:59pm

The dual pass endplate just changes the routing of the coolant. You can get away without the option b.

Tennpenn83

July 18th, 2008, 11:09pm

The dual pass endplate just changes the routing of the coolant. You can get away without the option b.

you can but i would highly recommend option b, seeing as the system bleeds itself. the supercooler fitting in the fender is fine, just when you get to racing, take out your headlight (which is super easy on the redlines) and fill `er up. lol

you can do option a, but you gotta keep an eye on the filler neck and watch for the bubbles and the coolant level, which means you won't be operating at 100% for weeks while you wait for all the air to come up.

there has to be a way to do both, with option b and the supercooler

MGM1979

July 18th, 2008, 11:49pm

I'm determined...I'll look at some things tomorrow.

Doc

July 19th, 2008, 11:17am

You just need another reservior, one that can accept the two lines, a 3/4 and 1/4.

BlackChrome

July 20th, 2008, 7:43am

So the main reason why a reservior is necessary and takes priority over the cooler is mainly because, it will "burp" the system? How much clearance is above the cooler between the hood?

Tennpenn83

July 21st, 2008, 6:54am

So the main reason why a reservior is necessary and takes priority over the cooler is mainly because, it will "burp" the system? How much clearance is above the cooler between the hood?

trying to bleed the air out of a stock system or a option a dual pass system is virtually impossible without a constant monitoring of the little tiny filler neck/window. you have to watch that for about 3-4 weeks after doing the dual pass setup (as installing the dual pass requires draining of the coolant) you'll have to open your hood after every time you drive somewhere and keep a mix of coolant closeby so you can constantly refill. if you don't, the coolant level will get to the point where it is not even making the pass by the filler neck/window and is basically rendering the heat exchanger useless.

dual pass with option b makes pretty much the same system as the engine coolant, with its own bleeding setup so after install, you pretty much are done. i filled my tank up the first day, and once on the third day because the coolant made its way down and the air its way up into the extra tank. this was about 4 months ago. i haven't touched the system since except to fix a kinked hose last week.

dual-pass option b is also easier to set up with an additional heat exchanger, especially if you run another bleed line and a "Y" fitting to the bleed line connected to the surge tank. that way it's a surefire win.

basically the easiest way to think of this is option b is maintenance free. option a is not

and to specifically answer your question, the surge tank needs to be the high point of the system, for the simple fact that water is heavier than air. the air will not flow into the surge tank if it does not sit higher than every other hose, endplate, heat exchanger that is part of the system. there is minimal clearance between the tank itself and the hood when closed. however, there is a slight bit of room in front of the tank, as you can see in my picture

BlackChrome

July 21st, 2008, 1:27pm

Gotcha, that's what I was assuming. I just used a cobra reservoir, so I guess I pretty much have the option b without the dual pass. I should go ahead and do that.

This is why I was asking MGM about any clearance above his cooler thinking maybe he could make his own small reservoir above the cooler to bleed the air.

The cobra tank I added made bleeding it really easy. Also there is a bleeder vent on top of the factory heat exchanger that will speed up the process greatly by getting all the vaporlock out of the stock unit instantly.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f38/watts-up/reservoir002.jpg

redlineross

July 22nd, 2008, 3:25am

:soapbox: mgm-that engine bay kinda reminds me of the apollo capsule. dont they have water up there?-Ross

csementuh

August 4th, 2008, 9:22am

I have a dual pass from ZZP and a CX Racing H/E without Option B and have never had a problem with purging the air out of the system. Just make sure to fill both H/E's with coolant to the top. Then start the engine with the filler neck cap off and add coolant until it is about to overflow. Let the pump run while filling the neck as needed. Then just watch it for the next couple days. Let the motor cool off completely and refill the neck as needed. It only takes like 2 days before it is completely bled. With Dual Pass and 2 H/E's I only ever see like a 130 IAT2 even after hard passes with my 2.8" Just some info...